I’m restringing an old Zuckermann “Flemish Double” and have run into an unexpected problem: at least two pairs of pins are so close in the bass that I can’t fit a tuning hammer (I tried several) between them. What can I do to solve this?
Many thanks.
Not good. Needle nose pliers and grab from above? But that’s hardly a solution for the customer. Use smaller pins there? Urk. You are going to have to redrill the pin block in that area.
Replacing one row with extra long pins might do it. I have seen that expedient once.
Huw Saunders
London
Although doweling and redrilling the pinblock is probably the best way, here is an idea…
You could try hammering one of the pins lower and deeper into the pinblock (don’t over do it, of course). Then take the adjacent one out and shim the hole so it rides a little higher. Since the pins are tapered top to bottom, perhaps you can make them just different enough that you can tune them.
Good luck!
Dongsok
Le 26/11/2022 14:39, Andrew Bernard via The Jackrail écrit :
Not good. Needle nose pliers and grab from above? But that’s hardly a
solution for the customer. Use smaller pins there? Urk. You are going
to have to redrill the pin block in that area.
Thanks Andrew. That’s what I don’t want to do… In the meantime, I’ve
removed the two closest pins, filed about .5 mm off each side the tips
and put them back in place. I can at least tune them now, though
problems might arise if one day they end up more or less aligned. I also
found among my collection of tuning hammers yet another one that seems
to have thinner “lips” (?).
That does not look good at all. You could try grinding the sides of the offending pins down and getting someone to make a tuning hammer with a samller diameter. Perhaps you could also take a pin and press it into a tube which would not be as big in diameter. I am not sure if four-sided (zither) pins might work out better for the base even though they do not look as good.
Good luck,
Andrew Wedman
I am puzzled, presumably somebody has used and tuned the instrument in the past.
Frank.
The cause of the problem is not the position of the holes, but the
angle. Obviously, the holes were drilled with the nameboard in the way,
which means the pins close to the nameboard don’t angle back. For the
lowest notes, this was the case for both ranks, but then only for the
back row.
Some of these were perilously closely marked and if the builder was a little off then this happened. I would reconsider a better placement and I suspect only a few need to be moved? Analysis (required working tuning diameter) will tell, ,Pull the colony of pins in the challenged regions. plug the holes that need to be moved. redrill,i reinstall and smile!
Le 26/11/2022 15:47, Frank House via The Jackrail écrit :
I am puzzled, presumably somebody has used and tuned the instrument in
the past.
I’m just as puzzled. The instrument must be around 40 years old. It was
in very bad shape and unplayable when I picked it up - strings missing,
wrong strings in many places, etc. But all the tuning pins were there,
and I didn’t notice anything when I unstrung it. On the other hand, if
the tops of the pins are perpendicular rather than aligned, there’s more
room.
Le 26/11/2022 16:18, Anne Acker via The Jackrail écrit :
Some of these were perilously closely marked and if the builder was a
little off then this happened. I would reconsider a better placement
and I suspect only a few need to be moved? Analysis (required working
tuning diameter) will tell, ,Pull the colony of pins in the challenged
regions. plug the holes that need to be moved. redrill,i reinstall and
smile!
As I said, the position of the pins seems right. It’s the angle of some
of the pins in the wrestplank that is a little off. If the pins were
parallel one to the other, there would be no problem.
Is it possible that the holes are vertical, the pins were at some time, but something heavy has been dropped on that part of the instrument and bent them?
Frank.
Le 26/11/2022 16:55, Frank House via The Jackrail écrit :
Is it possible that the holes are vertical, the pins were at some
time, but something heavy has been dropped on that part of the
instrument and bent them?
No, because this would be quite apparent when I turn them. Besides, all
the pins have been removed, and I haven’t numbered them or anything,
since they all seem identical.
Hi all
Willard here
This is my first ever comment on any subject!
That is a frequent problem w the bass t pins on that dwg of course
I always use the key to bend the tuning pin in place to create the needed separation
Those t pins are malleable about like a framing nail
First make sure the t pins are deep and secure in the hole so you do not stretch the top of the hole
Usually a very slight bend is adequate
Just for trivia….
My understanding is that bill Hyman made that drawing and it was after the Amiens Ruckers which was the coolest hchd in Paris that year, 1973 I think….
That was not yesterday
Bill Hyman died in 1974 at age 41
His first great hchd, the one before Ripin-Rephan, now lives in Seoul, and it does sound pretty fabulous
Willard in Seoul
Ps
If the string ever breaks you can replace the string and rebend the pin that small amount…. It should tolerate that treatment for many years. W
Pps
Obviously this trick is not recommended for 5mm pins….
w
Since the pin position is ok, correcting the hole angle by packing and redrilling at the correct angle should work - and leave no visible scar…
From the perspective in the photo it is hard to tell for all the pins, but certainly the positions of the three top ones visible produce hardly any side bearing.
David
Le 27/11/2022 11:07, David Pickett via The Jackrail écrit :
From the perspective in the photo it is hard to tell for all the pins,
but certainly the positions of the three top ones visible produce
hardly any side bearing.
The photo is misleading. There’s about 4° sidebearing on these top
strings. Isn’t that enough? Besides the tuning pin issue, everything
else seems done pretty accurately.
As well as the suggestion to set the pins to different heights, you could also tailor one of your less precious tuning hammers by grinding it down on the outside so it tapers just enough at the end to fit (I have seen this done for the crowded bass of a spinet). A combination of these two solutions might work without redrilling holes. I would prefer to try thinning a tuning hammer before changing the height of the pins.
Le 28/11/2022 11:02, mshields via The Jackrail écrit :
ovember 28
As well as the suggestion to set the pins to different heights, you
could also tailor one of your less precious tuning hammers by grinding
it down on the outside so it tapers just enough at the end to fit (I
have seen this done for the crowded bass of a spinet). A combination
of these two solutions might work without redrilling holes. I would
prefer to try thinning a tuning hammer before changing the height of
the pins.
That’s indeed a good idea. Thanks, Michael, and thanks to all who
offered suggestions.
