Frescobaldi editions

What is the best current Frescobaldi edition, in particular page-turn-wise? I have the old Bärenreiter edition, full of awkward page turns (and with many errors in the musical text). Ideally, the toccatas would be on a double page.

Thanks.

In my opinion the best edition is the recent one by Il Levante, Latina, Italy, by Armando Carideo.
It is also very affordable.
It is in landscape format, and the Toccatas are not on two pages: some in three, some in four …
Best.

It’s not entirely clear to me from their English expression - are these in original clefs? If so, bravo!

No, the image on their website shows they use modern clefs:

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I’m certain this is a superb edition, but the blurb says:

This edition has the merit of offering in print of the works edited in score, both the transcription in score in the original clefs and the tablatures thus giving keyboardists the dual possibility of easy reading in tablature and reading score practice recommended by Frescobaldi.

Actually I can’t make much sense of that at all.

It’s well known to all that I am a big proponent of reading in the original clefs. It all those musicians in bygone times could manage it, we should too. My hobbyhorse! :slight_smile:

The italian text isn’t any clearer than the english translation, I’m afraid. Maybe Claudio will enlighten us.
I wonder, aren’t Frescobaldi’s toccatas written in tablature? If so, does make sense speaking of “original clefs”? Sorry I don’t know much about Frescobaldi’s manuscripts and first efitions.
I don’t own the Il Levsnte Frescobaldi edition but heared high praising.

Nor I. This is what Frescobaldi was accustomed to.

David

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Around 1600 in Italy keyboard “Intavolatura”, which meant using numbered keys and was inspired in lute intabulature, came to mean our modern system of two or more staves. Facsimiles of the original edition, as in Frescobaldi. Toccate d’intavolatura di cimbalo et organo. Facsimile. Partite di diverse, arie e corrente, balletti, ciaccone, passaghagli. Libro I-II.
clearly show that this was the case, as shown above by David Pickett, in an assortment of C and F clefs.
As per Carideo’s edition, I do not know where did Andrew read the “blurb”, but it is wrong: Carideo’s edition after the initial critical comments only carries the music transcribed to the modern G-clef and F-clef. That’s all.

Le 05/08/2020 09:09, Domenico Statuto via The Jackrail écrit :

This edition has the merit of offering in print of the works edited in
score, both the transcription in score in the original clefs and the
tablatures thus giving keyboardists the dual possibility of easy
reading in tablature and reading score practice recommended by
Frescobaldi.

My guess (as a translator) is that “score” means here in full score with
one voice per stave (as the Fiori musicali, I think, or Bach’s AoF), and
“tablature”, the traditional two-stave keyboard score, and certainly not
keyboard tablature.

I any case, this does not concern the toccatas, since they were
originally published in keyboard score (see David’s sample).

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Curious indeed, Domenico! As I said before, Carideo’s edition only has the modern two stave score. This edition has a copyright 2013 but was published in 2015. It is the only one offered for sale online, directly by the publishing house Il Levante and by Amazon. There appears to be no second edition. And indeed, it is exactly the one I have, and has only the modern two stave score.
Indeed, the publisher Il Levante suggests otherwise, as Andrew stated, but it is wrong!
Very strange indeed.
Il Levante “blurb”

This seems the most logical explanation, yes.
Frescobaldi’s Capricci were as far as I know also originally published in full score.

I remember a lesson with Leonhardt where he talked about the importance of the various printing techniques for assessing textual accuracy. Frescobaldi’s toccatas were engraved, and thus open to corrections in subsequent re-prints (the copper plates can be corrected and re-used [a certain number of times]), whereas movable types were usually just thrown back into the box after the edition was done, and every new edition was a start from scratch with the danger of introducing new mistakes. Only when I veered off into Beethoven studies I found out that accuracy issues in plate engraving are a whole 'nother can of worms…

I don’t have the Frescobaldi publication but I do have several other Il Levante editions of early Italian keyboard works and they are excellent. They often feature a facsimile of the original in addition to a transcription in modern staff notation and critical notes.

Best,

Matthew

This is what they call a “score”:
image

And this is a keyboard “tablature”:
image

I think the matter is quite simple and the blurb, though in inelegant English is correct:

“This edition has the merit of offering in print of the works edited in score, both the transcription in score in the original clefs and the tablatures thus giving keyboardists the dual possibility of easy reading in tablature and reading score practice recommended by Frescobaldi.”

The original Italian reads:

"Questa edizione ha il grande merito di offrire, delle opere edite in partitura, sia la trascrizione in partitura in chiavi originali, sia le intavolature. Dando dunque ai tastieristi la duplice possibilità della maggiore facilità di lettura in intavolatura e della pratica consigliata da Frescobaldi di esercitarsi alla lettura in partitura. "

The transcription in [full] score (la trascrizione in partitura) refers to the one part per stave format used by composers for contrapuntal pieces, and the [Italian] tablature (le intavolature) on two staves (for left and right hand respectively), used for toccate. Italian intavolatura should not be confused with German Tabulatur. The latter is a means of transcribing using note letters (similar to Lute tablature), and used even by JSB when he ran out of space at the end of a page. Italian tavolatura, which looks like the system that we use today for keyboard music, is thus called because it indicates which hand plays what.

The word intavolatura originally described the practice of transcribing a multi-voice vocal work for keyboard. Whereas many musicians did this at sight, notating it on paper helped those who were not adept at reading the full score, simultaneously deciding which notes could be omitted and which hands could play the rest.

David

I see that my incomplete editing of my last paragraph was sadly lacking in care. It was meant to read:

The word intavolatura originally described the practice of transcribing a multi-voice vocal work for keyboard. Whereas many musicians did this at sight, notating it on paper helped those who were not adept at reading the full score, simultaneously deciding which notes could be omitted and which hands could play the rest.

Apologies for this: I have corrected it on the Forum site.

David

No David, the blurb is incorrect: it clearly states that the score is printed in two different ways. This is just not the case: there is only one score, in modern clefs.

Le 05/08/2020 15:18, Claudio Di Veroli via The Jackrail écrit :

No David, the blurb is incorrect: it clearly states that the score is
printed in two different ways. This is just not the case: there is
only one score, in modern clefs.

But do you have the specific volume this blurb refers to?

TA 30 - Opere per tastiera - Vol. I - Fantasie (Milano 1608) Recercari
et Canzoni Franzese (Roma 1615) Capricci (Venezia 1624)

Questa edizione ha il grande merito di offrire, delle opere edite in
partitura, sia la trascrizione in partitura in chiavi originali, sia le
intavolature. Dando dunque ai tastieristi la duplice possibilità della
maggiore facilità di lettura in intavolatura e della pratica consigliata
da Frescobaldi di esercitarsi alla lettura in partitura.

Ho
That’s the point.

AFAIK:
The blurb refers to polyphonic genres (Capricci, Ricercari, Fiori Musicali etc) which were edited in “partiteurs” (= score”)

Not to the “libri di Toccate etc” which are in “tabulatura” (2 staves, keyboard tablature)

This blurb probably refers to the “Frescobaldi project” of the editor in general.

Best
Mg

Martin GESTER

+33 (0)661 79 47 75 (mob)
www.martingester.com

www.leparlementdemusique.com
http://www.hear.fr/academie/index.php

Message parfois dicté / possibly dictated…

Why so many doubts about what I clearly wrote again and again?
I would not have recommended an edition if I did not have it complete.
I would not have asserted something about that edition before checking it all.

So here it goes again.
I have all the three books of Carideo’s edition.
I have gone through them and, but for a handful of small-size facsimile pages, it’s all and only in modern clefs.
The blurb clearly stated that the original version is included in the published edition.
It is not. The blurb is in error. Full stop.

Le 05/08/2020 16:58, Claudio Di Veroli via The Jackrail écrit :

Why so many doubts about what I clearly wrote again and again?
I would not have recommended an edition if I did not have it complete.
I would not have asserted something about that edition before checking
it all.

My original question was about editions of the toccatas. The blurb
refers only to polyphonic pieces. Which explains my doubts.