Ok. I’ll clean them. Will also try the heavier gauge. 415hz
Thanks Andrew
Dear James
The problem sound seems to be only on the C# side, so I suspect you might be caught up in the characteristic spinet phenomenon which you will not be able to change. And remember you are sitting right on top of the instrument where every little pop and squeak can be upsetting, although inaudible to the audience a few metres away.
I doubt cleaning the strings or pins, or substituting a thicker gauge of wire is going to make much difference, if you already have at least .011" iron in that octave from a to a’.
As for your natural quilling which you mention is unreliable, I have found turkey not so suitable because the feathers are too stiff. The natural structure of a stiff feather is destroyed in the voicing process because you are forced to cut into it too much to get the desired tone and touch, and this leads to premature failure. Spinet plectra tend to be shorter and hence require more thinning than on the harpsichord, so this problem is probably magnified on the spinet.
Regards
Carey
The same as all of the rest of us, we do not know the sollution online, but here are just a few comments.
What happens with the string when you remove the jack and pluck it gently with a toothpick at the plucking point. Does it still “twang” ?
If the strings do not rub on a jack (which is even more unlikely for a spinet) then my first guess would also be a problem with the string or some lint or rust.
What happens when you dampen all the portions of the other strings behind the nut?
I have never used natural quill material but a good friend of mine who regularly voices prefers wild goose to turkey for this.
Regards,
Andrew
What argues against this is that it has only just developed after five years of not, and so it can’t be a spinet design issue.
James-
Have you checked for harmonic bleed-through from lower strings?
Sitting aside for several years, some of the bass dampers may have set into little creases against the strings, or warping of case or soundboard may have changed the contact of the dampers on the strings.
Lay a cloth over the lower strings and press it lightly while playing the buzzy notes.
This is the most fun I’ve had on the internet in a long time!
Ed
Stinky inharmonicity in spinets is an interesting topic & currently close to my heart and ears (a muddy spinet bottom C that sticks out hideously, like a clapped-out upright piano).
I think tuning pins themselves haven’t been mentioned so far in the thread. Might the downbearing of the string on the nut be a factor in the offending strings’ behaviour? Even if it is already holding pitch, perhaps the tuning pin could be tapped in a bit.
On the subject of spinet inharmonicity: contrary to common belief, a very experienced builder of clavichords recently mentioned to me that it is also possible skilfully to use wound bass strings (copper wound on brass) with success in spinets. I wonder if anyone has experience of this, positive or negative, with a view to modifying my bottom C.
Thanks everyone. I’ll be working through this growing list of experiments. Andrew W., Regarding plucking with a toothpick: still stinks, but plucking away from the pin sounds slightly better to me. Maybe Carey is right in a way. I’m wondering if perhaps my young spinet was in a grace period and has settled into it’s true fussy personality. I never mentioned that there are no great swings in humidity or temperature here in northern California. I’m going to keep trying though until every possibility has been exhausted.
If anyone has a source to purchase better quill than I am using, please let me know. I’ve been tempted to convert to delrin…
James
I wonder if it is possible that some rib under the soundboard has partially delaminated?
I do not believe instruments have a grace period of the order of five years.
This is soluble. Just needs a lot of detective work.
I hope Andrew is right & it will be fixable! I am pleased to report that thanks to all your thoughts and suggestions, after more fiddling around with my spinet’s muddy bottom C I was able to fix it to match the others. I’m not quite sure how… as the string was new and is a long way from breaking point, maybe it just needed to settle and bed in. And I think there was a connection with the downbearing of the string on the nut, at an awkward angle in a cramped space.
JAMES: I have been thinking (dangerous!).
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You report that the plectra on your instrument have to be shorter than on a harpsichord, and I have heard that about spinets before; but are they all pretty much the same length, i.e. are those pointing one way the same length as those pointing the other way?
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Given this, I would agree that turkey are not a good choice. I currently use swans on my harpsichords, but they are stronger than Canada goose feathers.
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Because, unlike delrin or celcon, the material of a quill is not uniform, it is not a good idea to thin them, as it can take away valuable fibre, as Carey remarked earlier. I think this is why you have to replace them too often.
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Although I abandoned it for my harpsichords because I found feathers easier to fit, I would recommend you to try delrin or celcon as this can be shaped to the strength required without weakening it (if you see what I mean). As far as width is concerned, I personally leave my feathers the same width as the slots in the jacks (about 1.5mm). I make small rounded corners (with a glass nail-file) but do not taper them at all. In my experience, making them pointy encourages upper partials beyond what one might want, and might exacerbate your problem.
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Although I agree that Andrew’s suggestion of a problem with a rib under the soundboard is possible, I dont know how you would get at this to check without difficulty.
David
I was actually thinking about a rib problem yesterday. It should be easy enough to check since that part of the bridge is pretty close to the wrestplank and I made the whole nameboard able to slide up and out. Removing the keyframe as well gives plenty of room to explore with a hand or camera.
Now that we’re talking about this, when tuning up in the high treble, far from middle c, when lowering the tension before bringing it up into tune there is a “click” in that high part of the soundboard close to the hitchpin rail. I think a couple of strings will cause it to click while tuning.It does not click while bringing the tension up however. This part of the compass does not have the tone problem, but maybe something loose there could cause the problem lower down the bridge???
The plectra are the same length either direction. A few in the treble ended up short from sloppy pinning which I’ve been meaning to fix, but they don’t have the tone problem. I’ll try shaping the plectra as you suggest and hear if there’s an improvement. Picking the string at the plucking point with a guitar pick or even a finger nail (upwards) definitely yields a fuller sounding tone I’ve noticed.
Dear All
Loose/partly detached ribs can usually be easily diagnozed by a firm rap with the knuckles on different areas of the soundboard. A distinctive telltale rattle will be heard.
Regards
Carey
