Soler keyboard sonatas

Dear friends,
I need some help. Of course some of us know the Rubio edition of 120 kb sonatas. Apart from that there are some sonatas (7) edited by Frederick Marvin. He claims to have found 200 sonatas. I have some of his editions. Most of it is doubling the Rubio edition. On youtube l found Rebecca Pechefsky playing some sonatas with rather high R numbers. Obviously recently discovered sonatas. Who knows who is the expert on Soler of today to consult about newly discovered sonatas. I might finish the job I quit 10 years ago of recording them all. I did 77 sonatas including the 7 Marvin sonatas, so there is a lot of work still to be done……
Who can help me to find out more.
Your help will be highly appreciated

Best

Pieter-Jan Belder

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Soler’s sonatas numbers are messed up. I engraved “all” of them about ten years ago for my own purpose and found many multi-movements sonatas having just one number in one of the two editions (don’t remember which one) and having one number for each movement in the other edition, thus considering the movements as different sonatas. Or vice-versa, as I still don’t know whether they are multi-movements or single-movement sonata.
Could this be your case?

I have no name to five tou as a Soler researcher, I suspect there is no Soler researcher at the moment. Maybe Rebecca Pechefsky knows something more.

Btw, great work with the Soler sonatas, as usual.

Best
Domenico

Please, check this link. Enrique Igoa is a researcher focused in Soler’s sonatas.
You May ask him about the matter.
As a harpasichordist I was teaching that all of the Soler’s Sonatas are on one movement. I don’t think it’s right thinking of sonatas of 4 movements as clásicas ones.
Regards https://albeniz.academia.edu/EnriqueIgoa

Dear Domenico,
Wow, chapeau. For me recording these is less work than engrave them. Did you just do the 120 sonatas or also newly discovered pieces?

Best

PJ

I did the 120 sonatas, keeping all the errors of the Rubio edition plus adding my own errors.
It was not a very long work as there are OCR programs for music so I didn’t have to input all the notes.

Dom

I was - and am - under the impression some sonatas arrivo indeed in two or four movements, and it’s something the same Enrique Igoa writes in his introduction to 20 sonatas. He writes at page 63:

“The haste with which the sonatas were published is at its most pronounced in volume 3, in which five of the sonatas included are really movements from sonatas in four movements, something that Rubio himself suspected, as he stated in the list of sources. When he later discovered these sonatas in their complete form in other manuscripts, he had to “extract” them from their previous position, and so as not to have to renumber all the subsequent works he reassigned these numbers to other sonatas that had not yet been published”

And then at page 71 his table is headed “Probable groupings or sonatas in 2 – 4 movements”.

However, this may or may not be relevant to Pieter Jan Belder original question. I sure do hope he is able to record the missing Soler sonatas.

Thanks for this. Enrique Igoa did an edition of 20 sonatas. Looking forward to these notes……

Well, l hate to dothings twice, so l’ll have a good look to this issue….

A lovely exchange indeed. I am no Soler expert. Le me just add that Soler also wrote six sonatas for two harpsichords. He entitled them “Conciertos para dos órganos obligados”, but the range exceeds that of any known royal organs of his time, so here órgano is to be taken generically as the German klavier term.

EDIT: In spite of the above observation (by Kastner ed. I believe), I stand corrected as per Stuart’s comment further below.

Except for one with three movements (Andante, Allegro, Minué), the others have only two movements each.
In the sixth one the 1st movement is a sequence Allegro-Andante-Allegro-Andante, followed by a Minué. The remaining four feature a 1st slow movement followed by a Minué, the latter including a long set of variations.

Therefore, and in absence of contrary indications, it makes sense to group Soler Sonatas similarly when they match by tonality and alternation slow-fast.

Pieter, the introduction in Spanish and English available on Academia.edu: (PDF) 20 Sonatas de Antonio Soler - Score and critical study | Enrique Igoa - Academia.edu

I once played the concert 6, on two harpsichords. I remember the edition showed some registration indications typical of the organ, flautìn and the like. I don’t know if those indications are original as the parts I had lacked an introduction and notes.

Dom

Ton Koopman and his wife recorded the six concertos for two organs in 1992

According to Jean Louchet in

Prince Don Gabriel de Borbón had a specially constructed house with two
chambers organs, range GG-g’‘’ and the requisite stops. The Prince
played organ 1, because you get to do that when you’re the prince, and
Soler played #2. The organs are no longer extant but there are
“numerous” sources that describe them.

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Soler conceived the 6 Concertos to be played on an special kind of double organ for two players.
https://www.jstor.org/stable/20794966

Norberto Broggini

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So where are the MSS for these works? Publicly accessible?

Personally disliking academia.edu, here’s the English version:

Here’s what ChatGPT has to say:

Where are the manuscripts for the Soler sonatas?

The manuscripts for the Soler sonatas, also known as the Sonatas for Harpsichord by Antonio Soler, are primarily held in various libraries and archives around the world. One of the most significant collections of Soler’s manuscripts is located in the Biblioteca de Catalunya (Library of Catalonia) in Barcelona, Spain. This collection includes a substantial number of his sonatas, along with other works.

In addition to the Biblioteca de Catalunya, you can find Soler manuscripts in other notable institutions such as the Real Academia de Bellas Artes de San Fernando in Madrid, the Biblioteca Nacional de España (National Library of Spain), and the Archivo de Música de la Catedral de Segorbe (Music Archive of the Segorbe Cathedral) in Spain.

Outside of Spain, some manuscripts are held by international libraries and archives. For example, the British Library in London, the Library of Congress in Washington, D.C., and the Bibliothèque nationale de France (National Library of France) in Paris may have some Soler sonatas in their collections.

It’s worth noting that while the aforementioned institutions hold a significant number of Soler manuscripts, there might be additional scattered manuscripts in other libraries or private collections. Researchers and musicologists often continue to discover and uncover new sources of Soler’s works.

I continuze to be irritated by the style and gratuitous verbosity of the replies of ChatGPT. This computerese could be abbreviated by about 50%:

“One of the most significant manuscript collections of the Sonatas for Harpsichord by Antonio Soler is the Biblioteca de Catalunya (Library of Catalonia) in Barcelona, Spain. You can also find Soler manuscripts in the Real Academia de Bellas Artes de San Fernando in Madrid, the Biblioteca Nacional de España (National Library of Spain), and the Archivo de Música de la Catedral de Segorbe (Music Archive of the Segorbe Cathedral) in Spain. The British Library, the Library of Congress, and the Bibliothèque nationale de France (National Library of France) in Paris may also have some Soler sonatas in their collections. New sources of Soler’s works continue to be discovered in other libraries and private collections.”

(One could omit the last two sentences also,)

David

@Pickett I only asked it because nobody else was forthcoming, but then, I am in a far away time zone and maybe everybody is asleep.

It was no criticism of you, only of the style of the AI reply, which reminds me of a student trying desperately to add quasi-relevant material in an exam reply, in the hope of getting a better mark, or hoping that the length of his essay will impress the examiner.

I would not have been surprised if it had kicked off with:

“Antonio Francisco Javier José Soler Ramos, usually known as Padre Antonio Soler was a celebrated Spanish baroque composer (1929-1783) mainly known for his many solo keyboard sonatas of unknown quantity. His sonatas were written out in manuscript and examples of these can be found all over the world, but mainly in Spain, his native country… blah blah blah”

David