Two seconds in Bach (quiz of the day)

Chords with a second (sometimes a passing note, others an inverted seventh or ninth) are common fare in Baroque keyboard music.

Chords with two seconds are instead much more infrequent.
When we find them we are quite surprised.

F. Couperin gives a remarkable example in his Passacaille (Neuvième Ordre), 7e. Couplet, especially in the chords that include the signs “x” instead of notes, where two consecutive seconds are to be played, in the style of “tierces coulèes”.

The use of two seconds in a chord (especially “unprepared” ones) meant as “acciaccature” for a striking dissonant percussive example, is best exemplified in many Sonatas by D. Scarlatti, famously all over the place in the Allegro in a minor K. 175.

In J.S. Bach these effects are far from frequent. Indeed, we find two seconds in some organ works. For example, in the Fantasia et Fuga in g minor BWV 542, in bar 37, the first chord features, among other notes, A, f#’ and g’. The Praeludium et Fuga in b minor BWV BWV 544, at the end of bar 14 has F#, g and e’. A well known harpsichord example is found in the Harpsichord Partita 6 in e minor, Toccata, for example in bar 102. These are, however, mostly the results of retardations rather than tierces coulées or even acciaccature and, most importantly, are not strictly “seconds” but rather sevenths or ninths…
In Bach two “strict” seconds in a chord are very rare, and even rarer in his non-organ keyboard works, but there are a few remarkable examples in a well-known piece, however …
:thinking:

This is a really interesting topic Claudio. But either everyone is hibernating or nobody knows the answer. I certainly don’t. You may have to tell us!

Thanks Andrew!
The chords occur in the Praeludium und Fuge BWV 894, composed not later than 1717, left hand, bars 11 and 12. These effects are rarely found in his later works.

Needless to clarify, this is the work that was later (after 1730) transcribed into the Triple Concerto BW 1044. Some scholars find this Concerto authentic, but others, including Leonhardt (with very interesting evidence) find it unlikely to be Bach’s own work (Leonhardt suggests Bach’s pupil Müthel, others Wilhelm Friedemann Bach).

Le 27/06/2022 12:24, Claudio Di Veroli via The Jackrail écrit :

The chords occur in the Praeludium und Fuge BWV 894, composed not
later than 1717, left hand, bars 11 and 12.

I’m afraid I don’t where these “two seconds” are in the bars you
mention. Unless you count a seventh as a second?? This would be
something new.

There are sevenths that can count as seconds as I clarified below.

But there are true seconds as well: bar 11, left hand, first chord:
c-d-f-g-b .
Both c-d and f-g are seconds.

Le 27/06/2022 13:37, Claudio Di Veroli via The Jackrail écrit :

But there are true seconds as well: bar 11, left hand, first chord:
c-d-f-g-b .
Both c-d and f-g are seconds.

In the BGA edition there is no g.

Dennis

You are correct. I am using Henle 1970.
The Kritischer Bericht lists six sources dating from JSBach’s life, and only one, attributed to Johann Ernst Bach, dated c1740, carries the g: therefore, prima facie, the “normal” version has no g.
Nevertheless, Henle’s editor found fit to print it, although with no explanation why.

Here is my explanation: the g is also found in the Triple Concerto version, where the passage is now in bar 28. And it is agreed that the Triple Concerto dates about 20 years later than the Prelude and Fugue. Therefore, it is likely that the g represents JSBach’s final version.

However, there is an alternative explanation: the g was added by Joh. Ernst Bach and he also produced the Triple Concerto!

Is it permissible to expand Claudio’s quiz subject?

He has excluded organ works, but if we may include them, I suspect there are many more examples of stacked seconds. Here are a few:

  • BWV539, prelude in d, measure 40, downbeat g-a-b𝄮 in the closest possible proximity;
  • BWV672, Kyrie, Gott Vater in Ewigkeit, measure 5, 3rd beat c-d-(g)-e;
  • BWV672, Kyrie, Gott Vater in Ewigkeit, measure 7, downbeat b-(f#)-c-d#;
  • BWV673, Christe, aller Welt Trost, measure 9, last 𝅘𝅥𝅮, a-f-g#-(d);
  • BWV674, Kyrie, Gott heiliger Geist, measure 6, last beat, c-e-b-d;
  • BWV674, Kyrie, Gott heiliger Geist, measure 12, downbeat, c-d-e-b.

I found these pretty fast, so I think there may be quite a few more, especially if we may also count 7ths & 9ths, which generally function harmonically in the same way as 2nds. (My notes in () are not contributors to the stacked 2nds.)

Dale

You are welcome, Dale!

I limited the quiz to the keyboard because this is a harpsichord forum, but I wrote “and even rarer in his non-organ keyboard works,” therefore suggesting that they were indeed more frequent in his organ works, as Dale correctly observes.

However, Dennis would object to Dale’s list stating that he is counting as seconds also sevenths and ninths.

Let me therefore agree with both Dale and Dennis, extending the search to the organ but using “strict” seconds!

In this case, as I see it, only the first item of Dale’s list is still valid:
BWV539, prelude in d, measure 40, downbeat g-a-bflat

I find it difficult to spot other examples. Found two in Die Kunst der Fuge (there may be a few more):

  • Contr. 1, bar 55, d-e-f : a nice example: just very audible two stacked seconds! Pity lasting just a quaver!
  • Contr. 9, bar 117, 2nd quaver, f-g-d’-e’ : pity this is a faster piece and some are just passing notes.

Thanks for the contributions!

If you count 7ths as 2nds, than you should also count 9ths. And if you
start counting all the 9/7 chords in Bach, you’ll be a busy man.

This is my first reply in this forum, and I noticed this topic because I had just been playing a piece of Bach’s which indeed does have a chord with two major seconds. This is the Prelude BWV 815a to the French Suite #4 in E-flat major, and the 4th measure is a chord of E-flat, F, A-flat, B-flat, and D-flat. So not only two seconds, but also the minor 7th.
Thanks to Claudio for sparking my interest in noticing the rarety of this chord :slight_smile:

Is there a MS of this available? Not a modern edition.

From Bach Digital Archive:
https://www.bach-digital.de/receive/BachDigitalSource_source_00001284
I was not aware of the Prelude. My modern edition starts with the Allemande.
Thanks for this revelation!

However, I do not see an F in the 4th measure.

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Thanks! Which is why I wanted to check.

There is a modern edition, by Ulrich Scheideler (2017), published by Henle as Edition without fingering, HN1593. The text has f1 as the lowest note of the upper stave. The commentary says: "Lower note [of the upper stave] in all [four] sources is eb1 instead of f1; but this reading is not very likely, given the parallel fifths and chord in measure 2. (Words in are my clarification.)

In my opinion, the parallel fifths are not very audible, as they involve inner voices. But players are free to choose which version to use!

David

Thanks, David. What a bizarre editorial decision!

As can be seen in the manuscript I provided earlier, there is really no doubt as to what the note is (eb1). As the editors admit, all the sources say eb1. Wouldn’t a more prudent editorial decision have been to notate eb1 and have the critical note say that the parallel fifths could be avoided by replacing eb1 with f1?

I agree with your comment re: inner voices, and I would add, arpeggiated ones.

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Indeed, I have the HN1593, David! (I used it to check for errors for my own baroque-fingered edition!). Regardless, that J.S. Bach avoided two seconds in the same chord is obvious. Even in his most involved and dissonant progressions, e.g. organ BWV 572 and elsewhere, he avoided them scrupulously, moving one of the offending notes to the octave above or below it.

However, there is a very interesting example of two seconds in the Art of Fugue, Contrapunctus I, bar 55 where the tree voices play d’-e’-f’ !! :slight_smile:

More stacked seconds in keyboard works of JSB:

BWV539, prelude in d, m.30: g-a-b;
BWV797, sinfonia #11 in g, 2 bars before the end: g-a-bb;

I suspect there may be more.

Dale

A post was split to a new topic: Frequency of changing strings

“I had in my ears these remarkable two seconds!”

The second movement “Largo e dolce” of J.S. Bach’s sonata for flute and harpsichord in B minor BWV 1030 has long been mentioned in every single modern publication on continuo, being considered the most beautiful example of Bach writing down what is, from all points of view, a continuo accompaniment: chords based upon a bass sequence, with occasional diminutions.

In the last bar of the first section (bar 8), both 1st and 2nd time, the harpsichord r.h. plays e’-a’-b’ while the flute plays an appoggiatura c#". Perfect two adjacent seconds!

In some recordings the appoggiatura is played as a very fast acciaccatura, but it is well established that this type of appoggiatura is slow, taking almost a full semiquaver, thus the two-seconds become very clearly audible. It is also a very poignant effect to have the two voices moving motu contrario and producing three consecutive seconds b’-c#, c#“-d” and again c#“-d”.